13 Sometimes It Be Your Own: Black Women with Black Leaders in the Workplace

When we see another Black woman in leadership in the workplace, many of us expect to be protected, supported, and seen. Unfortunately, many of us experience the exact opposite. 

Join Mercedes Swan, your host, and Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins as we discuss how Black women navigate workplace challenges and opportunities when we're working with leaders who look like us. In this raw, reflective, and truth-telling conversation, we discuss the best and the worst Black women supervisors we've worked with, how systems of power impact our ability to navigate the workplace authentically and how we can create space and opportunity for other Black women in the workplace! 

Connect with Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins 

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins is a People & Culture Partner, educator, and creative who brings a grounded, human-centered approach to every space she enters. She partners with organizations, leaders and individuals to build cultures rooted in authenticity, accountability, and care—moving beyond surface-level gestures toward meaningful, lasting change.

To learn more about Dr. Gaddy Robbins as well as invite her to teach, train and transform visit her website: https://www.askdrashley.com/

Get Dr. Gaddy Robbin's book, the Conscious Leader: https://www.askdrashley.com/consciousleader

RSVP for the Black Woman Bliss Webinar

Learn how to quit your toxic job, launch a business & create a life you love with clarity and confidence in my upcoming free webinar! This webinar was created to help Black women tap into their purpose, break the toxic job cycle, and take a 90 day path to freedom. 

Join the Webinar Now: https://www.mercedesswan.com/bliss

Work with Mercedes Swan:

Mercedes loves coaching and mentoring Black women who are launching their job search, learning to navigate the workplace with confidence or are planning their 9-5 exit by building a business she loves.

Connect with Mercedes here to explore 1:1 Coaching or Mentoring: https://www.mercedesswan.com/connect

Transcripts

Mercedes Swan (00:00)
Well, hello loves, it's Mercedes Swan, the Career Love Coach This podcast is of course my love letter to the 9.8 million Black women in the workplace and a safe space for Black women who want to change the world while building a career, business and lifestyle we all love. In this podcast episode, we are ⁓ talking about this phenomenon that is it's rough. Okay, it's really rough.

where we go into the workplace, we see somebody who looks like us in leadership ⁓ or a manager even, and we expect to be supported and welcomed and kind of cherished because they should understand what it's like to be in our place, right? But we get there and they're like, no, here comes the disrespect, here comes the toxicity, here comes this really challenging working dynamic that we didn't really expect, right?

today we are talking about it with the very lovely, beautiful, fabulous, all of the amazing things, Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins. ⁓ And she's been my sister in love, sister in thought on TikTok. I love her content. We've gotten to interact a little bit, but today was our first like real meeting. And so I'm really excited to talk with her because I know we talk about a lot of the same challenges. She also comes from a DEI background.

But she is a people and culture partner, okay? Like I said, yes for the DEI girl, we're coming together.

She's also an educator as well as a creative and she brings, and I mean this, she brings a truly grounded human-centered approach in the spaces that she enters and where she works. And so she partners with organizations and individuals to help to build cultures that are rooted in authenticity, accountability and care, moving beyond surface level gestures and towards truly meaningful lasting change. And so I know this is so much what we.

what we need in the workplace, but I also know we really need this conversation for us. Okay, this one's for us. And so before we really get into it, I want to start it off, just to start us off with this fun energy. So our hot take for today is what is the worst trait in a supervisor or leader that you've worked with that also looks like you?

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (01:52)
Okay.

Yeah, one of the worst traits in a supervisor that looks like me is invalidation. Like, we can have differences.

Mercedes Swan (02:16)
Mmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (02:21)
You can have different experiences, different ideas about the same topic, but don't invalidate my position with the thing. Don't invalidate my experience with the thing. And sometimes I have seen that come at the intersections of race, gender, and age. And so it's just like, girl, you young, you don't know, you don't, why are you getting angry about that? We've been doing that for 20 years. And it's like, hold up now.

Mercedes Swan (02:31)
you

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (02:49)
just because it may have been something that you experienced 20 years ago or because you've had hardships, my thing is not that hard or whatever the case may be. So I have found specifically with supervisors who look like me the worst trait is invalidation.

Mercedes Swan (02:54)
you

⁓ that's really hard. I mean, not hard, accurate, but it's hard to deal with because I think that's related to my hot take, which was I feel like I was the most unstable and unconfident that I've ever been in my career when I was working with somebody who looked like me. And I say that because it's connected, and I would have said inconsistencies and how I was being managed in that, and I think that's connected to what you were saying because it...

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (03:25)
you

Mercedes Swan (03:34)
it made me feel unstable and unable to really affirm like, is this really me because I'm new in this role and I'm growing and I'm learning? Or is this really somebody else's, like, their own beliefs based on how I should be behaving? And I think so much of that is like, we're in a different space than what our elders or Black women and our Black men in the workplace had to deal with. ⁓ And they...

do tend to invalidate our feelings because they know where they've come. And I feel like that was a lot of my instability of not really understanding that individual's journey, but still having to follow in those steps. So yeah, that's right.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (04:18)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we feel that

often and sometimes, let me also just add very quickly, that saturates our community to the point where we could have heard the very same thing from our grandma.

Mercedes Swan (04:23)
No, you're good.

Mmmmm

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (04:31)
And then we gotta come

to work and hear the very same thing from our supervisor. You see what saying? This invalidation, especially at the intersections of age, we hear it so many spaces that the last place we wanna hear it is at work. So I gotta hear it at work too, when I'm already hearing it from Auntie, I'm already hearing from Grandma, I'm already hearing from my mama, and then I gotta turn around and hear it from you. Like, stop.

Mercedes Swan (04:35)
Yeah.

Yeah,

exactly. Yeah, because it's, you know, the cultural pieces of like how we're expected to show up. think that at least from, I think, and when I hear you, what I'm saying is like a lot of the like respectability politics of it all. How we should show up and how we can't show up and, and you know, well, yeah, we, if we start talking about a palm color supremacy culture, okay, we'll be here for.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (05:09)
Yes, absolutely. That's it.

Thank you.

Mercedes Swan (05:21)
a long time, but I think it's so much rooted in that and what is expected of Black women and whether or not, yeah, works, ⁓ we can rely on our elders or those who have come before us to not pass, not continue passing that down to us. So, okay, so this whole podcast collaboration, by the way, was inspired by But They Look Like Me, which is a series that Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins has been doing.

on TikTok and I know I've talked a lot about this and I get so many questions about it because like it is a truly jarring experience, particularly the first time that you experience it. And I also try to hold space to say, hey, I know that you've had this really bad experience, but also that can, that's not necessarily always going to be your only experience when you work with other Black professionals. So I would love to hear like, you know, a little bit about your journey.

as well as like what prompted you to create or to start talking about this in your series. Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (06:21)
Yeah, absolutely. So my journey really starts in corporate sales. And so 21 years old. So my background is in communication studies, broadcast journalism. And I did, this is also, this could be it's own series as well. I did everything they told me to do in college.

I made the Dean's List. I graduated with cords and stoles. I got involved. I joined a sorority. I did all the things they told me to do when I was in college and the outcome is not what they said it would be. So I'm over here like, ⁓ I know I'm going to be a broadcast journalist. I'm the next Oprah. I did everything. Everybody, I got an internship. I did everything everybody told me to do only for an eviction notice to come 90 days after graduation.

Mercedes Swan (06:59)
Hmm. ⁓

Mmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (07:15)
So I pivoted.

to the call center. I was answering phones at Marisa Wallace at corporate sales. it was actually my first supervisor, my first full-time supervisor was a white woman from New York. And she heard me talking to somebody on the phone in a way that was very much given a hot mouth 21-year-old. And she literally put her finger on the back of my ⁓ chair.

Mercedes Swan (07:18)
Thank

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (07:45)
And she just pulled me away from the call. Literally the headset just started dangling because it was just coming off of my head and it just started dangling. And I will never forget what she said. She said, if you don't learn time, place and manner, you're not going to get far.

And so time, place, and manner, not necessarily stop being who you are, not necessarily you're not smart, you're not good, but time, place, and manner. And so I have taken that into every position. And so then I transitioned into higher education. And from there, kind of a few years into higher ed, I get my first Black woman supervisor. And till this day, she my girl.

Mercedes Swan (08:15)
Bye.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (08:34)
nurtured me and she really cultivated me and she was real with me and she gave context. So we talked about maybe the worst ⁓ aspect. I would say one of the best aspects is when Black women can just give you context, any supervisor really, but when a Black woman can be like, me tell you, let me tell you behind the scenes. Let me tell you why I did it because sometimes they're going to have to make decisions that you don't like.

Mercedes Swan (08:50)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (09:01)
But

the context helps. So she really nurtured me and cultivated me. I get out of Higher Ed. I also am a supervisor in Higher Ed as well. But then I transition out of Higher Ed and I go back into the corporate space, this time with business development and marketing, and then transitioning into people and culture. I get not only another Black woman supervisor, but she's the CEO of the company. And once again, she actually

Mercedes Swan (09:05)
Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (09:29)
takes me under her wing. She grooms me. She guides me. I become her right hand. I am her person. We're feeling good. And so I am out here like, baby, Black women are the best supervisors ever. Like they got me. And I literally have like say this out loud. And then I get bombarded with that must be nice. That's few and far between that. Ain't happening.

Mercedes Swan (09:44)
Thank

We're on TikTok.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (09:55)
You, you, no, not on TikTok yet. This is, I haven't gotten TikTok yet. So this is on Facebook and Instagram, cause this is a little, know, today a little. Oh no, no, no, so, that's today's story. And they were like, you living in a fairy tale? This ain't real life. And I'm like.

Mercedes Swan (10:01)
Okay, I just want to know the context because you know those those comments show different where you are

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (10:12)
on here. Now don't get me wrong, I have had my fair share of supervisors who were not aligned but they just weren't the Black women ones, you know what I'm saying? So they were, so they started just giving it to me and I was like huh. So as I'm going through my doc program I focus on Black women.

and their resistance, everyday resistance, the ways in which Black women persevere and persist every day. And the things that we're already doing are actually formal political strategies, right? So as I'm having these conversations with Black women, I'm really gaining a lot of kind of insight and data. And I really then begin kind of, you it takes a few years, but I get into a spot where I'm like, do I want to say it, talk about this topic?

because it could be a little murky. So I really had to look into the avenue and had to approach this series. This series really comes from now being a consultant to Black supervisors, Black women. This also comes from all of the experiences that I have personally, you know, with Black women and without, you know, outside of Black women. And then it comes from kind of the voices and stories I've collected over time. But my main strategy is this.

Mercedes Swan (11:14)
Yes.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (11:30)
We're not doing anti-blackness in this series. We're telling the truth. But it also is a series about ways that we can move forward together. Because community is still important to me. And I think that some of the things that we navigate from people who don't look like us, who are also not aligned, are things that could be.

Mercedes Swan (11:41)
Yeah

Mm-mm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (11:57)
seven maybe out of the ten times could be figureoutable. Because at the end of the day, sis, I really do want us to be in some form of community. So how do we just navigate that thing? And that's what the series does. It gives you ways in which we move forward together.

Mercedes Swan (12:01)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Mm-mm. ⁓

I love that you've taken that perspective. I also love, I think that's always one of the challenges of like I've been and that has kind of been my trend where I'm, people are like, I was like oh you know you get into a role and you're happy for two years and then after the two years and people are like two years? You got to two years? I know you didn't get to two years.

Hold the phone! Well, hold the comment, whatever. Y'all have to come eat me up like that? I'm the career love coach. I want y'all to love what you do. I know it's rough out there, I'm not saying that. I'm not here to invalidate your experience. We go full circle with this, right? ⁓ But I do want you to know what's possible and I think it's really hard to say, hey, let's be accountable to what's gone wrong or the history and what we all deal with and why we do.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (12:44)
Sure. Honey, eat. Uh-huh.

Correct.

That's right.

Mercedes Swan (13:10)
what we do, ⁓ but let's like, where's the balance between calling it out and not kind of embodying, unfortunately, like, or internalizing anti-blackness because it's so hard. it upsets me when we have these conversations.

and we are using that same like stereotypes, anti-black language and behavior when we just don't like the other Black woman in the situation, I think that happens, right? And so I have been in my own space of trying to say, how do I navigate this while not tearing down community to your point, right? How are leaders accountable to their actions or their behaviors that's adversely impacting me? And when I talk about my experience,

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (13:36)
Yeah.

Mercedes Swan (13:55)
with this situation, my duality is one of my favorite super- I've had honestly like amazing supervisors. One of my favorite supervisors was a Black woman and one of my worst supervisors was a Black woman. So I have this range of saying like, hey, what does that look like? And how do I protect myself and also have the conversation of, what is the harm? How do we resolve this? How do we move forward while not, you know, resulting in adverse outcomes for another Black woman too. So

In your perspective, how, why do you think this happened? I we've thrown out so many little nuggets here and there, so I'd love to see which way you go with this, because I think there's so many compounding impacts, but like, what do you think causes this to happen when we're not really on the same page with the, you know, other leader that we're working with who's a Black woman, or maybe it's a Black man too, so, yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (14:47)
Yeah. So here's the thing about systems of power. Systems of power are situated to be one directional and when power sets the tone, power will do everything it can to ensure that what it has created sustains.

Mercedes Swan (15:07)
Here he is.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (15:12)
And because systems of power are so large, the people who are oppressed by them also perpetuate them. Oftentimes, not even intentionally, it's just a system that's that daggone good. So here are a couple of things that create the misalignment. Power says that the closer you are to it, the better you are. The more credible you are,

Mercedes Swan (15:26)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (15:42)
the more higher chance you have for promotion, the higher chance you have for stability, et cetera, et cetera. But proximity to power, ⁓ baby, we sell that like it's candy. The other thing that power says is that the way to be in proximity to power is through competition. Therefore, you need to take the other lady out in order to get close to power.

Mercedes Swan (15:55)
Yeah.

Let me end the podcast right here because we both can't be talking about this at the same time. So I'll just kick you out

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (16:15)
You see what I'm saying? Like,

that's, if you were to really do this right now in this space, that's what it sound like. Then you're talking about, honey, you gotta go. Cause I'm the only one who can be talking about career love.

Mercedes Swan (16:21)
Exactly, that's exactly what it sounds like.

Period. It's only one. It's only one Black woman on the internet.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (16:33)
But aren't we fed

it? I mean, just look at the movies, Mean Girls. I mean, just look at the stuff that we've been fed in pop culture even. So we really have just been fed, all of us, this message through systems of racism and capitalism and patriarchy, et cetera. And so here, and this is why I'm saying that to our point of why,

Mercedes Swan (16:41)
hearing.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (16:59)
do believe that accountability and community can coexist is because oftentimes it's not the woman, the actual woman who I have the issue with. It is the system of power and oppression and she is embodying that. So oftentimes when I sit Black women supervisors down and I say, tell me about your heart.

Mercedes Swan (17:21)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (17:28)
They almost rarely talk about competition and proximity to power. actually, but then I'm like, so why are your actions showcasing this when the, who you have told me you are is nothing like that. And so, so don't get me wrong. We'd be mad at the woman because she is actually portraying some of these things. but if we were to separate the two as much as possible is what I'm trying to say is that her heart usually is not.

Mercedes Swan (17:32)
Thank

Mm-hmm.

No, no, no.

It's high. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (17:58)
And so the reason why skin folk ain't kin folk, shout out to Zora Neale Hurston, is because of oppression and systems of power. So we really need to be mad at racism. We really need to be mad at capitalism. We really need to be ready to throw hands with patriarchy. We really need to be ready to throw hands at competition, at power, not.

Mercedes Swan (18:03)
You're you.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (18:25)
throw hands with the lady, but she, we're all internalizing it. She just really implementing it.

Mercedes Swan (18:33)
She said I got here away

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (18:38)
That's why we have come to this part. Now granted, yes, we still need to work with the individual, but I have to name systems as the starting point because oftentimes we never talk about power and we only talk about the person.

Mercedes Swan (18:52)
I feel like it's hard to talk about grace. I talk about it in saying having grace for the experience, right?

those who've come before us, right, they likely either had to assimilate to move up or they had to fight their way all the way up and be the person despite of, and both of those situations for them as a person is equally as traumatizing. And so when I say that I've seen Black women on both ends of that side,

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (19:04)
Yes.

Mercedes Swan (19:20)
you can see that that is what happened, but you can also see they're both fighting in a very different way. And both of them, right, were very highly committed to diversity, equity, inclusion, did a lot of amazing work to shift systems, but the...

the way that it asks you to move is so hard to see the difference other than dismantling a system or having a process. I'll say that as somebody who, until I exit to do my business full time, who was moving through those, you know, through that rank, is I knew in my career, I hit a moment where I was like, I'm actually at this crossroads right now.

where I can say, I'm embodying this type of leader and I'm assimilating or working through that, or I'm also fighting, I'm on the other side of fighting to create a different culture and something else that I want for my team as well as myself. And I feel like I went down one path for a little while because I didn't know. Like I just, I didn't see it. I was just like, this is...

I'm trying to figure out who I am as a manager, as a leader, and what my values are, and how I want my team to show up. And it's very hard when you have that pressure coming down of saying, this is how it's done, these are how we do things, this is how we manage people, this is how decisions are made. that's not how I want it to be, that's not how I want to see the world. And I was very uncomfortable making those shifts, and ultimately, I think me,

fighting the way to say, this is, I think a better way to do that. Here's this feedback. Here's how this is really impacting the team on a, not just a productivity level, but an emotional level as well, feeling like they belonged in that space of like, hey, I'm really carving this out. But going up that, know, going that route really took a toll on me. And so I, in many ways I applaud that. But what I would say as my last part of that, that pieces of power, I think that

we always assume that power, and I don't mean, I think you know, but I'm saying, talking to our audience a little bit, is that sometimes we assume that power is a bad thing. And I actually don't think that it always is because I've seen, you know, the Black woman that I told you that was one of my favorite supervisors just use that power in such an empowering way to break down systems, right? To use her education, to use her organizational power to make change. so,

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (21:19)
I'm sorry.

Yes.

Mercedes Swan (21:38)
I want you to know that if you're a Black woman here and you're like, if I rise up, like I'm going to lose myself and like all of these things, like, no, you can, you can pull together these power, but I think the difference here is, is, is it a sharing of power or is it like an oppressive power and to really think about it that way. So that's what I got to say. So for the Black woman on here, don't think it's all bad, right? You like, you can use the power how you want to and in a way that supports community, but also calls accountability to the challenges. So.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (21:50)
Yeah.

That's right.

Mercedes Swan (22:06)
Yeah, there's a lot.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (22:06)
Yeah, and very quickly

to something you're saying is that sounds like something you didn't have, certainly not folks the generations before us. They did not have community themselves sometimes in the workplace. They are the only they weren't.

Mercedes Swan (22:20)
period.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (22:22)
the person who had to create and trailblaze the path. They didn't have a mentor. They didn't have a coach. They didn't have a consultant. They didn't have an infinity group. They did not have anybody to say, sus, let me, let me have that you right quick to talk about how you doing that. They didn't have.

Mercedes Swan (22:39)
Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (22:41)
So that's what I'm also saying is I'm not naming the practice as right, but I am saying there is a wide range of reasons as to why that supervisor could be showing up how they are and what this series and what our work does is tries to meet that woman where she is, name the thing, hold her accountable and shift to shared power.

Mercedes Swan (23:06)
Yeah.

Absolutely. Share power, period. Heavy on that. Heavy on that.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (23:10)
You have to be with yourself.

Mercedes Swan (24:18)
I've had some interesting conversations, I'll say, on this topic. I'm sure you have as well. Where people are like, you're asking for a handout. You're asking for favoritism. Why do we need to be more careful in terms of how we're

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (24:22)
Yeah.

Mercedes Swan (24:36)
moving with other Black women, which seems like it would be counterintuitive perhaps to being equitable, right? And often how equity is misunderstood and all of these different things. there's something behind that as a statement as to why we would feel like that's favoritism, first of all. But that these dynamics, I would say almost more adversely harm Black women because

then there's an expectation of how we move based on somebody who's already navigated that. So the contrast is larger when we see a Black woman trying to, let's say, come to work as her full self and not assimilate. I also had a video on how that showed up in Insecure, because I'm watching Insecure for the first time at 30. And so that came up really early. And so...

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (25:13)
and.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Mercedes Swan (25:25)
Anyway, so I want your perspective on how do you feel like this really impacts Black women, from the other side, right? Like as a supervisor, like how does that impact us? What does that really mean? Is it a handout? Is it favoritism or is it a different way that may be more effective or not? So yeah, what are your thoughts? I know I threw a lot at you, but yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (25:46)
Yeah. Yeah. So from the supervisor's perspective, from what we kind of just talked about more times than not, you know, the resources you desired and maybe didn't We literally just said, you can use your power and positionality to shift culture. So by you just share using your power to provide what you didn't or couldn't have.

That ain't favoritism, honey. That's generational shifts. That ain't favoritism. That's, that's help. That's, that's, that's assistance. That's, that's sharing this. That's supervision for real. That's leadership for real, for real. Why would you not provide resources to your team? Why would you not provide resources to the people that you lead?

Mercedes Swan (26:32)
Thank you.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (26:38)
who are literally providing resources to the person you lead. And when we try to add on all the terms, when we try to add on other stuff, well, just seemed like that's fair to you. You're not supposed every resource ain't the same for everybody on your team always. The person.

Mercedes Swan (26:43)
the moment.

Mm-hmm.

That's right.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (26:58)
your team right here, professional development goals may be very different. The person over here might be like, I need help with health and speaking. The person over here need, I need help with grant writing. The person over here is, I may need help with budgeting. But the sister over here might be like, I just need assistance in being able to show up.

Mercedes Swan (27:01)
That's right.

Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (27:19)
If we take the philosophy of it, it makes sense. It's not until we start adding on identities and layers that folks start adding on names. But the simple idea of providing resources to your team members is leadership.

Mercedes Swan (27:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes, yes, and we all need something different. Whether you want to understand the definition of equity or not, y'all can be obtuse if you want to. Y'all can be obtuse if you want to. Yeah, we all need, yeah, okay, if you can understand love languages as a concept, you can understand equity as a concept. That's all I got to say. I'ma leave it at that.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (27:44)
Every

We out!

Come on man!

And we're gonna put

the period on THAT That's good.

That's good. And be the main one doing the assessments. Be the main one talking about, let me do this assessment to see what thing I am. be the main one talking about Virgos need different things than Capricorns need different things. Be the main ones.

Mercedes Swan (28:12)
Don't play with me today.

It's always the ones that from a leadership perspective that are like, need to go do a disc assessment. We need to build a team based on our disc profiles.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (28:39)
But can't understand that the same philosophy works with supervision in the workplace.

Mercedes Swan (28:44)
like it's

a wild thing. Yeah, but you know, well, you know, we're touching up in privilege and removing said privileges, you know, we can't be, we can't be straight about that. We can't be straight about that. All right.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (28:50)
Okay.

Now.

That's

why we need a career love coach because we need folks to be meeting us and telling us the truth in our ear and still loving on us at the same time about the realities of this place.

Mercedes Swan (29:10)
And

I do love y'all. say I had to focus on Black woman right now because after November, I was like, I don't wanna see none of y'all. I probably will cuss you out on site. I'm just, okay, give me a year. Give me a year, I might go back. I might go back to do some training. No, I love speaking, I love training, but I mean, I really do mean that I'm I'm joking about not talking to nobody else.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (29:17)
Okay. Okay.

Yes.

Mercedes Swan (29:35)
⁓ But I just

I needed a moment because it was just so difficult to deal with it particularly in the DEI space of just saying I mean I was out here talking to y'all Like two weeks ago like what are y'all you're doing? So it's just it's just a lot but ⁓ so we've kind of talked about the perspective of why it happens We've talked about the supervisors now Let's talk about the person who is on the receiving end of the toxicity the challenges

And for those of you, I talk about my story with this a I was in a place where I literally, I literally had to go see a psychiatrist because I had anxiety and depression, clinically diagnosed anxiety and depression due to this workplace stress and this dynamic that I wasn't able to actually, there was a lot of dynamics, but it led me to a place of feeling truly unstable in myself and going to work and also,

unfortunately feeling like I had to protect my team. ⁓ And it was all of these dynamics of push and pull. I was also still running my business outside of that. And so there was just all of this going on. And then on top of it, which I do, ⁓ I know this is weird when I say this and people are like, girl, I'm honestly really thankful for the experience because it unlocked me learning about having ADHD and my ADHD diagnosis because that's actually what happened.

Because I was so stressed, I could no longer manage my ADHD, And so that is kind of my experience, and I'm happy to share a little bit about how I feel like I healed and what my journey was. But I'd love to hear from your perspective of what you've seen and...

What would be some ways to really cope and heal from that kind of experience? Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (31:20)
Yeah, well first of all kind of again full circle to this the start of this conversation first let me tell you that ⁓ What you are feeling is real life I'm not here to gaslight you. ain't here to make you feel like you going insane. I don't want to make I don't want to be like now. I know

Mercedes Swan (31:31)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (31:39)
Maybe, maybe a little bit, potentially if you're being for real, but not on this, on this. I know.

Mercedes Swan (31:46)
It's another

part, you know, we were multifaceted.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (31:50)
Somewhere else,

baby, I can't, maybe.

Mercedes Swan (31:53)
you know, do some other things, but this, okay, I'll go with you.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (31:57)
But for this particular thing, so let me first just start by saying what you are feeling is real. What is happening to you is not in your head. is not something that to take lightly. is something that is real. Here's what I have kind of seen and been able to craft out as a way to kind of cope and thrive. One.

Pay attention to the patterns.

And I think that when we are able to kind of track the patterns of exactly what is happening and the impact on us, it allows us to articulate it, whether that is to the supervisor, whether that's to HR, whether that is to a therapist, we are then able to give voice to it because we have been able to find the themes and the patterns. And it's not to say that, you know, things don't happen sporadically.

and sometimes it comes out very sporadic. But when we are able to kind of package it into an occurrence and an impact, that allows us to bring voice. And when we bring voice, we kind of unlock a higher chance of getting help, right? So that's the second thing I want to say after I see you. Find the patterns and find it in the occurrence and the impact.

Mercedes Swan (33:15)
again.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (33:26)
The third thing I will say is so I am about to come out with a book like quite literally in like quite literally.

So there'll be a guide book that I'll be offering and I do work, my dissertation work, my research is on everyday resistance strategies. And so what I will also ask you to do, sis, is find the things you are already doing and how are the things, how do we use the things you are already doing and and use them as active resistance? What are the things you are already doing to cultivate joy, to cultivate peace? How do we lean into those things? And then the last,

thing I will say is after you have kind of sat with the patterns and sat with your impact enough how you gonna move and that can open up to lots of things. Now hear me very loudly when I say the throat the person who should be moving and getting they mess together need to be her, need to be the supervisor, need to be them. So don't

Mercedes Swan (34:31)
really heavy on them.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (34:34)
As me saying I got to sit here and take the horn and then I got to solve my problems I got to be I'm tired and then I got to save my own self from them from her. So hear me very loud and clear I got something to say to her too. But since I'm talking to you right now, I do want to say a name though. Is there a point where there have there is a next move and is that next move?

Mercedes Swan (34:50)
Thank

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (35:01)
saying something or doing something like to, you know, saying something to the supervisor. Is that kind of mobilizing throughout the org through things like ERGs or HR, et cetera? Is that piecing out? Right? Is that, is that you investing in your own professional development for you to then explore the thing that you know you've been passionate about? Cause more times than not, the role that you're in ain't what you really want to do in real life. So

Mercedes Swan (35:29)
Episode 2.

Period. ⁓

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (35:32)
what is going

to be the next move and just explore if you have the capacity explore what that that may look like ⁓ and so those kind of just four quick things that I have

Mercedes Swan (35:46)
Yeah, there's so much to unpack there and I think one of the things that we have to be careful of is that we often, we can even create toxic experiences for ourselves even when we're in an inclusive organization because of those learned experiences. And so I think that it's important, yes, I always talk about shifting behavior because you don't wanna continue that cycle.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (35:58)
Mm.

Mercedes Swan (36:12)
but also making sure that you're creating new positive experiences for yourself, that your actions do, are a contributor to that, ⁓ whether or not we know, right, this isn't about gaslighting, that person's over there, but this is in your locus of control, this is what you can shift and change. And I would say that healing is also feeling like, I've had so many of these new experiences that I'm creating for myself, I now feel safe in my environment, in my workspace, and to be my best self.

⁓ And like as somebody who, like I said, I've gone through those cycles myself, ⁓ it's really clear to me looking back the different decisions that I made, a lot of them based out of ⁓ a mindset of abundance or scarcity, right? And there's all dynamics of this. So we don't just make our career decisions as in like completely separated from ourselves. They are always based in core beliefs that we have about ourselves, right? So they're all connected. So don't just look at all the career stuff and be like,

I'm dealing with all of that out here. It has nothing to do with me. They're all connected, so.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (37:16)
Yeah.

And to your point too, is oftentimes we haven't sat down to do deep critical self analysis about what those core values are. We haven't had time to go inward first to even know how, how can you create the boundary if you don't know where your limit is, if you don't know what your value is, if you don't know what your non-negotiable is.

Mercedes Swan (37:27)
Mm-hmm.

No such thing.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (37:44)
So please for everybody, no matter your positionality, take the time to do critical self analysis and let that potentially be the starting point before you kind of do all these other things.

Mercedes Swan (37:58)
Mm-hmm because even whichever side of the table you're on actually right like you were talking at the beginning about like hey What is your heart? That's not how you show up like would love and so it's the same story different side of the table And so yeah, that's definitely a good nugget for for leaders to really ask yourself. Like what is your heart? What are your values? What do you believe about the world and how does that show up for you as a leader? What's your philosophy on that because that is truly?

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (38:12)
Yes.

Mercedes Swan (38:26)
how we move from, I told you I was at that crossroads, right? How we move from this to this and right where we can truly create more space for Black women. So I know we're about to wrap up and I know we have had so much. know we haven't, mean, literally I could talk about this for hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours and hours. But we can do that because we wanna talk about some other things and I definitely wanna give.

Ashley some time to share a little bit more about some projects that she has going on. But perhaps if you can, you you shared those like little pieces of resistance that we have each day. And so I think our closing discussion question will be, you know, what is one practice of solidarity with other Black women that we can practice on a daily basis that you think would really shift and change how we move, particularly in a challenging dynamic, right? Yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (39:21)
Mm-hmm. So kind of keeping on the same cycle of the heart. don't ask, and especially Black women, I don't ask them, are you doing? I ask them, how is your heart? And I think that shift in question sometimes even catches them so off guard. Cause they're like, that's a different question. No one asked me about my heart. You gave the, how you doing? I'm fine. ⁓

And they'd be like, check on your strong friends. And you go, I'm checking on my strong friends. You good? And it's like, that's not even the same question. You good. It's not even the same question as how you doing. So I mean, in a way, guess terminology, but socially, but when we talk about matters of the heart, especially when somebody's really going through, I mean, I guess, ask them.

Mercedes Swan (39:58)
You

We ain't telling

you what that question says. You'd ask for all of that, but you asked about the heart. Period. We have time.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (40:21)
your heart it forces us, encourages us to one move past this normal I'm fine but two it requires us to actually take a small assessment of where our heart is because our heart my heart and my good are the places where I hold my anxiety and my tension and so like my heart and my good are telling me exactly how I really am so I get to go there for a second and hopefully give you an honest answer

So that's what I would say if there's one nugget. And so not only ask how your heart is, answer honestly when you're asked the question.

Mercedes Swan (40:59)
I do apologize. Well, I kind of apologize because I'm like, oh lord. I kind of apologize because I'm like, I'm laughing but I'm not laughing at you but I was laughing at the question because I remember in this dynamic, I can laugh about it now that's you know I feel. The question that I would get, which was that check-in question that you're asking which is like we have the opportunity to check in, the question that I always received was, what keeps you up at night? Now ma'am why would you ask me that?

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (41:12)
huh. Another answer.

Mercedes Swan (41:27)
No ma'am, no ma'am, why would you ask me that? You! You keep me up at night and that's why! You! I tell you! I can't answer you honestly in this relationship!

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (41:33)
You the main one.

How?

Because honey, I could tell you, but you not gonna like the answer because you answer.

Mercedes Swan (41:44)
You don't. I tried to tell you

a little bit of this before. You know, we had that one check-in and it didn't go well. ⁓ but on the

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (41:54)
Honey.

Mercedes Swan (41:55)
But on the other side of that, right, when we kind of go to this other dynamic, I would have, it wasn't exactly framed that way, but it would be really like, no, how really are you doing, right? Let's really talk about, and particularly Black women doing diversity, equity, inclusion work, you really have to say, no, really, how are you? Not how's work going, how's your work product, how's all of this going, how are you feeling today, sis? Because I know that we are in,

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (42:06)
Yeah.

Mercedes Swan (42:24)
this work together and it can really take its toll on you because it's, can't, I mean yes you can try and compartmentalize things, but at the end of the day it's like I'm working, I'm talking about this as a topic, but I'm also talking about something that really impacts me. So that being said, like really ask the question, really care and really listen and hold space for that. And do not ask them what's keeping them up at night. It's just you.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (42:39)
That's right. ⁓

Yeah, because baby

you might be the answer and also receive what the honest answer is. So if we're asking folks to answer the question, honestly receive what their honest answer is. Cause then we'll be like, ain't nothing wrong with you. And it'd be like, so why did you ask me in the first, if you walk on, sit here and receive my honest answer, then what you asked me for in the first place, get your motives right. You know,

Mercedes Swan (43:14)
Yes.

Because really you only have one time. mean, I know that's like, we like to give grace, but you really only have to ask that question in a non-genuine way one time. We were like, that's it. I'll see you later. You don't have to worry about me. You don't have to worry about me. So as we wrap up, I do want to hear a little bit about what you've got going on. The book, let our audience know how to connect with you, how to learn.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (43:25)
That's it. Honey, you ain't gotta worry about me no more.

Mercedes Swan (43:42)
and work with you if they're maybe a leader or well, I don't know. Tell me all of the things like yeah.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (43:47)
consultant of Ashley Gaddy Enterprises, I work with organizations and individuals to center humanity. And whether that is in the workplace, through strategic and assessment works, trainings, guidance and advisory, I do a lot of thought partnership with leaders who need somebody to kind of be their ear and eye in the public, excuse me, in the private spaces. ⁓ And then I also do coaching. So I do executive coaching and I also do liberation coaching because much like our conversation today, a lot of folks

for a lot of very different reasons feel like they cannot show up as who they are in the workspace and a lot of that we have to undo kind of by looking at systems of power. So if you need like a coach who's going to be authentic with you, a speaker, a trainer who's going to be authentic with you, or a thought partner, or you know a guy, an advisor who you need to be real then definitely look me up. AshleyGaddyEnterprises.com is my website. ⁓

socials but I'm very excited because I'm about to launch two guidebooks. The first one is on everyday resistance strategies and so it takes us through what are some of the things that we do every day, how are they acts of resistance and they have some activities to really kind of go deeper. So I look at faith, sacrifice, centering self and community support. So be on the lookout for that and purchase that and then I'm also doing another one from a model that I

I created the Just Us model, which is a framework of how we have difficult conversations, usually, especially when it's tied to identity. So when some harm has been done in the workplace around identity, whether that's perceived or reality, we have to have that difficult conversation. I will also be launching the guidebook on the Just Us model framework that walks you through the model. It gives you some practice questions. It gives you some prompts, reflections. It gives you some

community agreements so that as a facilitator you are ready to have that hard conversation. So those are the things that I'm really getting excited about and that you all can plug into.

Mercedes Swan (45:57)
my gosh, I'm so excited. Like, you said I've been putting in some work. So I'm so excited for you because I know, yeah, just different ways to support each other and like real tactical ways. Because I think, you know, sometimes we can get real, you know, philosophical about stuff, right? And just we do need to bring it down sometimes. Like, yes, philosophical values, beliefs are so important, but like really get to the tactical pieces of like, how is that showing up in the day to day? So I'm excited.

And

for our listeners, all of this information will be in the show notes. I hope that you connect with her. is just honestly like, I love all of her content. I was like, wait, I'm excited about this conversation.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (46:37)
And Cypher,

thank you for inviting me and thank you for very quickly. Thank you for just being exactly who you are in the public sphere because it is captivating. You caught my attention. I listened the whole video every time and you really take people's real life experiences. You meet them where they are and then you guide them. And to be able to do that on a social media platform is very skillful.

Mercedes Swan (47:05)
Thank you, thank you, that means so much. I put so much in my content. And also, I'm a words of affirmation, girly. Okay, so thank you. So I really appreciate you and thank you for those words. And likewise, I just feel like, you know, they're...

We need all of the voices that we can and I love your content. I love elevating and so I'm excited that we're locked in, we're in this together, right? Yeah. Having the conversation. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And once again to our listeners, all of the information stuff that we're referencing will be in the show notes and I hope that this video inspired you to think a little bit about how you're navigating the workplace, whether you're a leader, individual contributor, a peer, sister in love in the workplace.

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (47:30)
Have fun.

Mercedes Swan (47:51)
I hope that you take this information to change, right? Change the world just a little bit. Little pieces of resistance can really help us all in the long run. And of course, right, it helps us all be in our Black woman bliss era, okay? Because that is the whole point. We wanna be happy, we wanna thrive, we wanna do our things, we wanna be passionate about what we do and how we show up. So yeah, I hope that you really loved this. And if you did, make sure you like, subscribe, share, follow us both.

all of the things and then if you'd like to support the podcast you can of course do that on Spotify. Until next time we both wish you much success in building a career business and lifestyle you love so bye. Awesome! Okay

Dr. Ashley Gaddy Robbins (48:30)
Bye!