01 Black Women in STEM: How to break barriers, build bridges and become a structural engineer with Destinee Wheeler

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Welcome to The Career Love Podcast, Sis! In this powerful first episode, I’m sitting down with my ride-or-die since kindergarten and structural engineer, Destinee Wheeler, to talk about what it really means to be a Black woman in STEM. With Black women representing only 2% of STEM professionals, the journey into and to success in this field is challenging but deeply rewarding.

Join me in this heart-to-heart to talk about Destinee’s journey, the importance of mentorship, betting on oneself, and navigating white male-dominated spaces! In the Career Love Podcast, we keep it warm, but we also get real about the struggles Black women face in career growth, dealing with discrimination, and why sometimes you have to leave to truly thrive.

If you’ve ever thought about a STEM career—or just need a reminder that you deserve to bet on yourself—this episode is for you!

How to become a Structural Engineer

In this episode we discuss

🤎 The challenges that Black women face when entering STEM careers and the challenge real stats on Black women in STEM and why representation is so low

🤎 Destinee’s journey and challenges to become a structural engineer & bridge designer

🤎 The mentorship gap Black women face in STEM

🤎 Why betting on yourself & leaving the wrong job can change your career

🤎 The emotional & financial realities of being a Black woman in a male-dominated industry

🤎 How to transition into STEM—even if you’re starting later in life 

Resources Mentioned:

• Connect with Destinee Wheeler on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/destinee-wheeler-e-i-6828a5114/ 
• Watch the FREE Black Woman Bliss Webinar to learn more about pursuing your purpose at work: https://www.mercedesswan.com/bliss 
• Looking to join a community of ambitious Black women to grow with? Join the Career Love Community: https://www.mercedesswan.com/join 

• Want to work with me 1:1 to advance your Career or Business: https://calendly.com/mercedesswan/info 

Stay Connected:

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Share this with a sis who needs to hear it!

Ready to step into your Black Woman Bliss Era by building a career or business you love? Reach out at  ⁠[email protected] 

TRANSCRIPTS:

*AI-Generated Captions*

Hello loves this is Mercedes Swan, the Career Love Coach and the host of the Career Love Podcast. Of course, this is my podcast, which is a love letter to the 9.8 million black women in the workplace and a safe space for black women who truly want to change the world and build a career, a business and lifestyle they really love.

This is the first episode and I'm so excited because we are talking about Black women in STEM. Okay, and we need to talk about this more because of course, it's no surprise to anybody here, Black women in STEM are underrepresented, Under-resourced, under-privileged. And so it's exciting to talk about this because...

The person that's here on the call with us is one of my very favorite people in the world. My ride or die, my best friend since kindergarten, okay? That's my girl. And we just over the years have really just supported and loved on each other. And we just have so many conversations about how proud we are of how far we've come in life. I continue to be proud of

who she is and her career and being one of the 2 % of Black women in STEM positions. Okay, she did that. Okay, she is a representation. I know, right? I'm being a little bit silly, but truly this is my girl. And so to just set us up for this conversation. if you don't know this, right? Black people, Black professionals in STEM only make up about 9 % of the STEM

workforce. was actually kind of, I had a hard time even finding those statistics because it's not even talked about a lot. mean, and the data that I did find was in from 2021. So there's still gaps and lack of understanding in there. And yes, black women, when you narrow that down and consider the experience that black women have being only 2%, whoa, this is going to be a podcast. This is going to be a podcast.

So with that being said, I am honored and so excited to introduce my best friend, Destinee Wheeler, and she is a bridge designer. And then when you consider her as a bridge designer, she's literally 1 % of Black women, less than 1 % actually, of Black women in structural engineering.

And she was also my very first career coaching client. So I got to work with her. She on my website. I got to work with her to help her to package her skills and really understand all the amazing things that she had done before she had even graduated college. So all of that being said, I'm so excited for this conversation. I'm so excited for you to hear this, for you to see Destinee because she is amazing.

So I'm gonna pass it off to Destinee to tell me a little bit about herself personally and professionally and what it's like being in her field. Hello, my name is Destinee. I'm from Orlando, Florida, born and raised. Growing up, people call me a nerd, really. I was really good at math, so I just kind of stuck with that.

Yeah, I played tennis growing up, but I stopped once I got to college because trying to do engineering and working and being like, it's just, it's not going to work. So put down the racket to focus on school and got my degree. I got my BS in civil engineering, 2019. Got my first big girl job and then COVID hit. So then I'll be like, all right, so what do we do? literally.

So I back to school in 2022 in that spring. And then my last semester is next semester in the spring. So I will have my master's in May. So yeah. Give a bit about me. I love it. Also, 9 % of Black women. I didn't go look at this up yesterday. I was somebody on TikTok. And she was like, I've joined the 9 % of Black women with master's It's crazy. It's crazy. crazy. I read that. I was like, what do you mean 2 %?

What are you talking about? But then I look around and I see it. It's super sad because I can count on my hand how many black girls were in my class and it was like the famous. So yeah. And I mean, we look at it. I almost pulled the data for how many like black women in STEM received degrees. Like there was some statistics on bachelor's and master's degree. I didn't pull them up.

But I also wonder like how many black women go and get that degree and then are not successful in pivoting into like actually getting that job. And we know, you we talked about it when you were, you know, applying for your first big girl job. Yeah. girl job. Anyway, so sorry for my blowout here. OK. Thank you. She's like, girl, you look like a pinup girl. I was like, and and.

But yeah, you know, when we were talking about it, it's so challenging to like recognize how your skillset, like as an undergraduate student, like translated into, and your internships as well, right? Cause you had an amazing internship and you're like, how do I talk about this internship? Like, how do I get those skills across? I was like, girl, you did amazing stuff. Like let's get that on your resume. But, you know, I could see how that's a challenge with figuring it out, not just navigating.

you know, college, but also the transition, particularly when, you know, for a lot of us, we do not have that mentor in our lives, right? Who's gonna tell us how to navigate a STEM job? Did not have one. You know what I had? had an uncle who was like, need to do this. Like he told me to join the army at one point. was like, whatever you told me to join didn't exist anymore. I was like, okay. It's not, it's not a lot of mentorship.

It's not, it's really not. It's really out here figuring it out. But you did it and you're doing it. Thank you. So you were telling me a little bit about, you know, family, the lack of mentorship, like finding your way, I think is what I would say that. And I know with Black Women, we're finding our way, often without help. So what ultimately led you to choose to become a structural engineer and specifically also a bridge designer?

Um, that same uncle actually. So I wanted to be an architect, um, back in high school. And my uncle was like, you should do civil engineering. Like it's really hard to make a name for yourself as an architecture. And I was like, okay. So then I was looking into it. Um, and then I got into like the CAD classes that we had, cause I was in the STEM program at, at my high school. So that was also like a good intro of like what I would be experiencing. So I got into CAD a little bit and I was like, oh yeah, I want to do this. Um, and so.

Then I found out that like structural engineering was a thing because I was always into building. So I knew that that's what I wanted to do. And then UCF had a program, Miami had a program, but their tuition was like $40,000. I was like, a semester. I was like, I'm not doing that. So I went to UCF and I did civil engineering. then like, you don't really get into your classes until, because you're civil engineering pending.

until you clear those like base courses. So I did that and then my first internship was through their experimental like thing that UCF has. But basically you can do a week long internship and I did them at a few, I think it was one at like at the city of Orlando and then the other one was at another engineering firm and that one kind of confirmed that like, yeah, I kind of want to stick to structural. I got into Bridge engineering.

when after I had my last internship, the guy was pretty bad. So I quit and then I went to a career fair. I forgot about that. I was like, toxic. But I went to a career fair and I pretty much was just trying to find all the structural companies that were out there. And I stumbled upon the first big girl job that you helped me get. And they were actually bridge They had a bridge department there.

So did that and I just kind of like stuck with it because I also did want to do bridges too. But it's, I feel like in structure it's either or like you don't do, you don't work on bridge projects and like vertical buildings and stuff like that. So I just kind of stuck with it and my next job was still in bridges, which I didn't mind. I like bridges anyway. yeah, it was like, I just kind of found my way, you know, on through and got in the bridge department and stayed and really liked it.

It's honestly you are something new every day. So it's like there's it's never never a boring day at work. I would say well now. Not that I got another story. We don't have to talk about that one because that was a doozy. Right. We talk about this stuff in the career that is like, how does this how does this help me grow? Make it make sense. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that was probably like what the final thing came down to. I think that's what I talked to you about was just like, I'm not growing.

in this position at all. So I need to make a switch. But it was also COVID years. So I'm just happy to have a job at this point. And then Biden signed the infrastructure bill. then we got all that. You were like, all right, we got a job now. All Give me my cash. OK, Biden, give me my paycheck. Literally. Literally. OK. Literally. So thanks, Biden. So thank you, Biden.

We did it, Jo. Okay, so I do want to talk about challenges later, but I think I want to circle back to a little bit of a day to day, especially for people who are out there thinking, you know, black women specifically looking into STEM positions and trying to figure out like, okay, is this something that would excite me or that I want to do? Tell us a little bit about like the day to day of your role and like what you do on a day to day. Also, I don't know if you're

I don't know if you're allowed to, you worked on, you know, you worked on an exciting project, at least one. So if you could share that, please do. But if you can't, don't do it. It's fine. I'll talk about my experience on that one, because it was like that was also a fight almost. OK.

So my day to day, so I am on, I'm a design engineer. So my day to day is literally like, I get a task, usually some type of design. I'm gonna say some words that's probably gonna be a little confusing, but I don't really know how else to say it. There's different components of a bridge. And since I've started at my new job, which was almost two years ago now, I feel like. That went so fast. I know, my goodness.

I got put on a lot of superstructures designs. So pre-stressing beams, your decks, barriers, those type of components is what I was mainly designing. And even for this next project, I took that over a little bit too. That's another thing. So that's my day to day. Day to day, come in, we have this design that needs to get done. And when I got hired, my boss's boss was like, we want to make sure that you go.

through the entire design. like between 0 % to 100, like that's our goal. And that is exactly what is happening because usually you have like 30, 60, 90, and 100 % like in a design project. So like the 30 % is usually like preliminary stuff, but what I do now is like I'm taking the designs to, well right now, literally to 100 % and then also doing like bridge plans.

like the markups and everything. So that's also, I've, I'm say this, I have learned what to mark up on a bridge plan. So I think I've so much in like these past literally two years. It's kind of insane. But now it's to the point where like I helped the younger engineers that have like just came in like a few months ago. And it's so fun to watch because I was like, I was you.

when I first came in as a young engineer and they have so many questions and I was probably doing the same thing to my senior engineer. It's a mix between getting designs done, status meetings and where we are. I'm getting a little bit more responsibility into designating tasks as well.

Um, this is last project we really needed because it was really just me and it's another girl. kind of had to like, cool in some people. So, um, a young engineer was under me, so it was kind of helping him with things as well. Um, but yeah, I'm not a project manager per se. So I don't need to be in like the, I don't need to be calling all the shots, let's say, but like, I think I don't want to do that either. Cause I kind of got a taste of it. I'd rather just be.

I'm good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. was like, I'd rather just be like mainly the designer, which is why like my day to day as I come in, I crunch numbers, I put things to go. Like, I don't have to talk to 100 people, you know? But eventually I will do because like, you know, the more you progress to become a senior, you're going to have to talk to people. But I don't want that to be like the main thing I do, which is on like the project manager side of things. So yeah. Also, I will say this.

Remember how it's not having mentors, you know, being as black women and stuff. So this job, my manager took upon himself to pair us with senior engineers as like our mentors in the department. he's like, that's what we need. Yeah. So he's like, so you don't have to just feel like you have to depend on me for questions and everything like that. He's like, we have so many senior engineers here. Like they've been there for like 25 years. Like they are smart people.

So I thought that was also really nice. So now I have a mentor and possibly another one to just my people all around, you know, so that Sorry, when did answer but that is my day today. No, this is a good answer. I crunched Do the black girl magic with the math? The teams and stuff. So it's like the girl I work with she's in Indiana. So it's like we're literally on team sometime. We got a question

Hey, how does this look like I'm literally learning stuff every day because it's not just about what you're designing is like how is the contractor going to build this? Is this possible? Does this make sense? Like would you if you go out there in the field? Stuff like that. But yeah, for the most part, very simple day to day. Nothing too crazy as a designer anyway. I'm at you because you're like this is simple. was like.

I not for me, okay? I saw calculus, I said, I see what I need to see. And you said, I'm gonna continue to see. Literally, like, through it all. We're gonna keep going. so I was like, it's simple for you, but yes, Black Girl It's not even as simple for me, but it's like, I like it, I like the challenge. And then once I get, because the annoying thing about me is like, if I can't figure it out, it's like, I need to figure this out before I go to sleep. Like, I did that the other day. Like, on Friday, I was like, I'm not.

talking out until I finish this because I don't want to come in on Monday and have to like, no. I thought you were to say you were doing that thing where you were like thinking about it in your sleep and then you woke up. I do that. Yeah. When you dream math, it's not like that sounds like wild work. Like really wild work. And then being doing my master's on top of that, like I really dream mad sometimes.

Oh my gosh. It's a so nerdy. Like, yeah.

When I say I have a list of hobbies that I to try when I graduate, because I have time to do them right now. it's like, we need that time. It's so annoying. I was like, I hate having to think noticing because I want to go ahead and be in school and like.

But it's going to be over. was like when it's over is over. Yeah, I'm not going back. I am most excited about, like, you know, the the more the balance of what my new year will be is like, I want to go back and like watch all the black sitcoms that I didn't watch. want to watch some anime. I want to do like my. What is that called? Polymer clay crafting that I was doing that I kind of stopped on my list.

OK, ceramic. like ceramics has been a long time, does me. It's coming. And I went to a class. I went to a class last semester, like in August. And I was like, yeah, found it. I'm like, not I can't make this. But it's coming. Right. Peace, that joy, that freedom in that.

Oh, my goodness. Every time I rest, I'm like, yeah, and we're not going to go into detail, but also the financial freedom of some some certain decisions. That's what I'm about. Back in my pocket. I would like to feel my full check. Thank you. Hello. DoorDash has been offering in Chipotle.

It was right down the street and my apartment and it had the dresser. I believe you. Well, it's been so. Yeah, it was dangerous because I remember a couple of times I came over and I was like to pull it again. That's me. It can't be every time I see you as to pull a every Wednesday. That's what it was every Wednesday. I was having to pull it. It like when I'm too tired. Anyway, I'm upset with your play right now because I went the one in Gainesville and, know, it's a bunch of college kids.

It was a busy day. I said I paid two extra dollars for this guac. You go give me this guac. I was upset. and then I went and gave me my guac, girl. And I was being good. So I didn't even have like I had like a salad bowl. I was like the the thing for me in this was the guac. So so I sent a little message because I'm upset about my guac because I drove away.

I busy. I know I wasn't going back in there for that Glock. And I messaged a little AI person and she's like, oh, we'll give you a credit for another Glock.

They gave me my money back after I complained. So anyway, let's talk about more challenges outside of getting your guac from. So I think my question. So I love how you're talking about the growth piece, like the mentor piece.

And I love hearing the big differences in what was happening at your last firm to where you are now with having more of that growth. And I think that's often what happens with black women because our goal should be to grow our career, should be to move to your point into higher level management or senior role so that you get one, that experience that prepares you for that, which is what you share you're getting now.

And also just opportunity for you to have exposure to those things so that you can grow. So all of these things like helping you grow. So what do you feel like was the key moment when you realized at your last role that like you weren't going to get what you needed there to grow? And like what made the decision? What like what contributed that decision to leave? Because I feel like so many black women stay and they don't realize that it's like this is actually.

you know, impacting their ability to like move forward, not just in STEM, but definitely in STEM, right? Where the representation even lower. Okay, go ahead. I think I realized it kind of like earlier, but it's like one of those things where you can't tell if this is being done on purpose or if it's just a coincidence. And I feel like to be fair, I really feel like it was a lot of bad timing, a coincidence mixed with like the dynamic of what the office.

already was, not necessarily the company, like, like the head probably leadership of the office and like the direction they wanted to go with things. So what happened with me was I'm a new engineer. essentially we were switching from design work to review work, if that makes sense. Like it's like safe, let's say that.

So like, granted, I had like great engineers around me and like another stuff I was doing was a lot of like, you know, traffic lights, like mass arms, they call them mass arms and like strain poles and stuff like that. I was getting a lot of that work because I think what was happening is that they wanted me to be like the next head person for those type of designs.

So it's very easy to get pigeonholed in one type of design. And it was like, wasn't what I wanted to do. And then again, COVID happened. So a lot of work really wasn't there. Like I said, I was happy to have a job at that point. So it was like I said, the bad timing, just got hired, not getting the type of work that even the other engineers wanted. It wasn't just me.

I was probably one of the last ones to leave, but it was because, you know. We stay too long. Yeah, and I know that happens because even the older black guy, like I'm so friends with him, like we haven't lunch because he works next door to me now because he left too. Wait, I forget. So he did he go to the same organization or that just happens that two different organizations are next to each other? So his job, his company is next door to mine.

But we were at the same company before. He's the older guy, from the beginning, he looked out for me and I was like, appreciate you. Because at one point, he brought me over and showed me his 401k. He was like, you need to have this when you get to be my age. So it's always good to have those people around, especially being Black and Black, it was nice. But back to challenges. It really was bad timing and also feeling like other people were getting

put ahead of me because probably I was new, also was the only girl, even though I don't think that was the reason. And you know, it's just like those subconscious things like, oh, well, let's get this person in here. And then also I would get killed in a project and then other work become available. And then I'm no longer available for that project because I'm on this. And this is going to be related to like structural engineering. But I will say I got a well-rounded like review of all types of engineering.

When I say I was down at the county, I was doing traffic work. So I can, the thing that I will say, like my dad always told me to like soak up whatever they try to teach you or whatever. I can now like recognize other stuff on other projects that's not necessarily raised to engineering. I can, I know where to find things essentially. So even though it might not have been picture perfect, it was, I was exposed to a lot of things.

because the work was so scarce that it was really like, need you. We're work sharing, essentially, with other departments. And I was like, OK, how long are we to work share for? And then there was a project, very famous in Florida, that finally opened up. But it kept getting delayed.

Oh my goodness. It was like, don't even say we're expecting this project until it actually happens. Like, and then that's when I left. And then I think after I left, they actually started to get work for it. I went, but the thing is like, you don't know how long that work is going to be there. Like it could definitely run out like within a few months. So it was just like, it's not worth it. Like trying to wait for this one project. was like, no, I'm okay. Um, it's actually kind of funny when I left, were trying to get me to stay, which I get.

I don't know if it's because like they had to meet a photo. I doubt it. It's me making jokes. They always they always want you to stay. It's like I know could have stayed. I could have stayed if you figured this out. But you didn't figure this out. Yeah. And I wasn't the only one like I can't even say it was just because me being a black woman. mean, don't like it was a lot of people were quitting. Like if people were not happy with the type of work we were getting, it was like we are figuring something out. I'm going figure it out over here. Why? Like even my boss is like.

It's okay. Like nobody was mad. Like it was, I felt kind of like justified and I also felt happy about my decision in the end because I knew I had to choose myself in that moment. And I knew if I stayed any longer, I was going to be worse off. Like I would, I would be almost four years in around the time you're supposed to be getting like your PE and stuff like that. That's another story. But it was like, I felt like I had nothing.

Personally, I could be like, okay, I know how to do this, like with confidence. But now I can tell you maybe three months into that job, the job that I have now, I was like, I'm doing my work now in these three months that I did in like the four years I was up there. Like it's crazy. Yeah. But, and then the older guy I was telling you about, he actually told me, he was like, there's another black girl or black woman, I think she was a girl, black woman that was there.

And she went through the same thing. was going through the same thing. Like at the same, I want to say in the same office. So was like, you don't know if it's on purpose. I don't think they're that ill-hearted. Like they were really lovely people. I just think it was more of just like the dynamic of the office and like the timing was just bad. And it was probably God trying to tell me you need to go somewhere else. and then I finally listened and every time I listened to God, you know, it works out.

I'm hard-headed but you got there girl and like look at you today Okay, that's the feel it that's the energy that's power um Yeah, cuz we were I you know when we were talking and you know a lot of the problem with that is is it's not it's not if You're not selfish about yourself in your career

You get stuck. Right. And so we talked about this dynamic where you were really feeling a challenge in moving from them because you didn't feel like you were having the types of experiences that would be beneficial elsewhere. my gosh. You know what? As I was preparing for this, I remember that story, that crazy story about the people trying to lowball you and offer. you remember that, doesn't it? I was like.

I said, Destinee, my career coaching, do woo woo juices were going. I said, Destinee, they're about to low ball you. I know, but the thing was, it was crazy. Cause I was this is less than what I'm making now. But like, I knew they needed people because of the company that they do work for. They're just about to open up. It was universal. Like they, knew what the work they were about to get. And I was like, like I said, structures, structural engineering has something like even though

It may just be structural engineering. You got bridges. You got like horizontal, vertical, and then you got like roller coasters and stuff like that. Like I was like, would, if I go to this job, I would be starting from ground zero, like trying to learn everything else. So yeah, I'm happy to go with them. So I'm a whole people accountable for.

I don't care where I know. I don't know. This is a struck. You go play the play the black tax. OK, for me being the one percent. I'm talking about them. I know. I wish that was I mean, would be one day like I'm your representation. I'm your diversity hire. You don't play that Black tax.

Anyway, also there was another thing that I loved about what you said there's been so many conversations that I've had as a coach where black people find that they either have this great ally in the other black people and that for you, that's even more rare. Right. You found one of the nine percent of the guy in the office. Only one. Exactly.

But you know how sometimes that's a really great experience. I'm so glad that you had that mentor to be like, this is what you need to do, you know, and I know you had those conversations with and I'm not sure if it was that individual, but conversations about, yeah, this is going to hold you back like you're earlier in your career. This is really going to hold you back. You actually can't afford to stay here for your career progression. And so I just find it lovely that we can all be that person in our careers. Right. Because on the other side of that, I hear

You know, the not great stories about support and mentorship from other black individuals in the in the workplace. I just want to call attention to that, like the community there that you had, the mentorship that you had that you didn't know that you would in him. And that is amazing. Yeah. And also, I mean.

you when you think about it, like, okay, yeah, maybe it wasn't intentional, but on the other hand of that, like they weren't intentional about trying to fill the gap for you. And I think even you can even see like good hearted people and say, well, actually you can be proactive because if you were to really think about the long-term impact that it would have on you and your career and not putting you on the right projects, not giving you the right mentorship, you know, what if you would have stayed, right? Devastating for your career. So I...

I just gotta say that, okay. I'm gonna call them out. I'm gonna call them out, okay?

No, but I will say you can usually tell between like the ones who respect you and the ones that don't. If you don't see it like right away, it eventually like shows itself for sure. So yeah, I mean, that's also like fun to navigate. I think the first internship is probably the one that like, it was very clear.

Like I didn't have to to read by any lines or anything like that. In school is definitely clear to see. Like I said, very lonely. That's like another challenge anyway. Like it's not a lot of us, especially in like structures. And then it also depends on when you are in school because you might be off with the other black kids. So like you may have these classes, they may have that classes. Like if you're a year ahead of them or you're behind them and stuff.

I, you know, I've met my Black friends and I think I have two people that are in structures, one guy, one girl, and then the other guy is in land development. And you know, we don't communicate like all the time, but you know, like on social and stuff like that here and there, just because they're also in the engineering world. So it's still good to like stay in touch with these people and they're really chill. So it's like, Black people, it's always nice to have them in your field, but like, you know.

You know, I joined sisters because there was really like no black people around me. So I got had to Go find my people. Yeah, we have a community. Yeah, literally cuz I was like I'm getting pretty lonely and it kind of So and it's hard. Yeah Which leads to the next question of you know in this space, you know, so I heard you say community mentorship growth opportunities but you know for

Other people thinking about maybe being a black woman in STEM, like what has it realistically look like for you working in honestly these white male dominated spaces? Because women in general are underrepresented severely. And so that means you're probably just mostly running around with white men all the time. Yeah. I mean, if you're being honest, like the first big girls I was the woman that was there quit maybe a couple of months into.

me being there and then it was just me and the rest were white men maybe. Yeah, one Asian, one Black, the guy I was talking about, like our cat tech and then yeah, white men. okay, so I'll give you guys, I'll give you a real clear description. You remember that episode in Insecure when Molly was like trying to make friends with people and she was like going to the hockey game and like trying to talk about hockey, like over coffee and stuff like that. When I tell you,

Our first, like my first day, they take you out to lunch and stuff like that. It was even my first day, like first couple of weeks. They were talking about like race cars and I'm like, I don't We don't do that, don't do that. I I don't know what to say. it's like you literally have as far as that, like you kind of, kind of just Google and laugh, you know, when it fits, but it's kind of over time.

You get to know these people and you find things to talk about. So it's not horrible 100 % of the time, but it is a sense of cold switching. Like when I found the black girl in the office, it's like, we can talk about my wig. you know, it's different conversations. Is my wig okay? Is my lace? No, it's good. see it? it's just different. It's different conversations. Even at this last job I have now, like,

after like the election, girl, we was in the hallway. Yes, the community at work was a different level of community after the election. was like, I need to feel safe. Yeah. And the thing is, that was probably like the first time that we actually had like a conversation. Like we it was early. We made eye contact and it was like, all right, girl, need this moment. It was crazy.

And then I like made a new friend, you know, so that's nice. And I have a new friend at work. But yeah, that's kind of how it is. But I will say at this new job that I have, we are very mixed. Like, that's awesome. Into their testament, right? Because they've done everything right by you. Right, right. So I will say like we are very diverse in my group. Like, I don't I feel like this is what we want to see. Right. And I will say, I don't even know. I feel like

I'm kind of not worried, but like I'm a little worried because we have people on like work visas, I think. And I'm like, are they, are they going to be okay? we, like, like them and I know there's a lot of stuff going on, have one new girl. She's from India. My other senior engineer that she's in the office in science is she's in China. Like.

think we got a new girl from, she's from Bermuda. I'm not mistaken. Okay. Me, I think me and my manager, we're like, thank you from Orlando too. He's white. I'm black. We have, I'm not even trying to assume what their ethnicity is. But we are diverse. It's diverse. I love how you was like, I'm black.

And I just like when you said it, I just looked at you for a second. I was like, yeah, I was like, that's me. Yeah, we got to cover, you we covered, cover all the faces. It's nice. It's My mentor, she's a white woman. I love her. She's great. And it's so funny because she came from the same company that I did. Like she quit the same time that I did. She was working. I was working at, I was working, work sharing with her office.

And she ended up quitting when I quit. And then we came to this company and got in the same department. It was kind of hilarious, to be honest, because she knew the guy was working with laughs. It's like, you know, I should quit. Like. But you know what? I feel like that affirms some stuff, though, right? Because she probably lived for the same reason. She did. Yeah, no, she did. No, we were talking about it. It's. Yeah.

Is that proven to you that it's intentional? Well, OK, so I will say I don't even know for her if it was like I think it was the office. it's like you said, you have to be selfish, essentially. And if you are, you will get pigeonholed. Like, I don't even know.

Cause I know the person, a person there that got pigeonholed and he ended up going to another department. And then I found out his real story and I was like, Oh, okay. Like, yeah, it's time to go. I have actually see what I need to see. All right. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Like if you are like, you know, going for higher up and you're not already in higher up, you really gotta, it's like, you gotta play a game there and

I don't really want to do that, to be honest. Like, that's what it seems like anyway. You need to play the game. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to work. How many of us are really able to play that game? I know. We got to play. Let me go home. I'm going to home. We're not doing that. We're done. We're done here. You don't want me here? OK. Bye. OK. So this next question is you. So you talked about, you know, your educational path, like your internship.

We talked about you packaging your skills. So think we've talked a lot about like the very traditional way of moving into this field, know, some of the requirements that you face. So let's say you have somebody that has, I don't know, maybe they're like me, they went and they got a business degree or they're just not in STEM at all. And they were really interested in, you know, getting started in this career path later in life. Like, what would your advice?

be for them to get started? Where should they start? Do they need to go back to school? And are there particular things that they need to do before they go back? Yeah, you're like, oh, I'm ready. I don't even know if you can prepare to be a structural engineer. But I would say you do probably need to go back to school. Because I think a lot of jobs just require you to have the bachelor's degree. I know a lot are preferring you having master's now.

So I will say if you do like community college first, save as much money as you can before you go to like one of the bigger schools. That was one of my regrets, like coming out of high school. I should have did the dual enrollment. But yeah, so going to community college, getting your, I think it's AA, do you agree? Yeah, AS degree, AA degree. Get as many credits as you can, especially math credits, because UCF does like a placement test and it's very annoying.

But essentially, you want to get as close to that non-pending status as possible. will say a lot of jobs, I want to say they pretty much require you to have your, being an engineering intern, so you have to pass the fundamental engineering exam. I feel like that's really step one, to be honest. But I've seen people who were just considered technicians at my first internship.

He was pretty much just a technician because he didn't have his PE. And he was late in life. He had a kid early on, so was like, he never went and got it. But he did a lot of design work, but it was just our boss was signing off on it pretty much. Like he would stamp the plans. So if you're starting like fresh, go to community college, do as much as you can there, and then go to the school, like transfer over and finishing out your degree.

That's why you're going to be like, I don't think there's another route besides that. Everything requires you to have the certification nowadays. So even with me, I'm struggling to this PE right now, it will too pass. It will also be there. But yeah, I would say that as far as like taking an alternate route of doing or just starting later in life in general and take the time. Like it's it'll be there. It's going to be work there.

So I heard you say something about a technician, because I also want to help people kind of understand the career path. So, for instance, like, does a technician do a lot of what you do without the degree, without the P.E.? think so. I would say so. I mean, I think that was his official title. I don't know if it's like a thing people really want you to be, but that's what I've seen. he got it. We were under him like like as.

new designers essentially like we were interns and he was the head engineer but like he just didn't have the title of it because he didn't like take the test for it or anything like that um i think i saw something on like one of those reddit um forums and somebody was asking like she was or no i think it was um

Mandy money budget, Lisa, podcast. Yes. The Brown Brown and vision. I think somebody would love their podcast. Yeah. They were saying like she was in the same situation. She was pretty much a technician and she was trying to figure out like how to go about like leveling up. And it was like, honestly, an engineer, you kind of have to go take that test to do anything really like to be honest. I don't think there's like an easy way around it. I don't think. But honestly, this is the type of field where

At the end the day, we have people's lives in our hands. it's like getting as much like technical experience as you can to me. I mean, at least in my field to me is beneficial. Like I said, I learned something new every day, like just subscribing to like the Structure magazine. Do I read them all the time? Why does that look like it came out of the 90s? I don't know. It probably did. But I mean, look at the font and stuff.

It's OK. If it's good, I really like this one. I would prefer to look at the Cowboy Carter album art instead. I was kidding. I know where to put her because I'm moving. So she's right there. And yeah, it's OK. I've appreciated seeing a little. Yeah. Little bit, you know, just a little bit. OK, so now let's talk about like the upward progression, right? Because.

So I know when we were talking, you were talking about the differences between like engineer one, two, three. So tell me like, what is your upward progression? So I assume you're gonna go through that levels and at some point it's more of like a supervising type engineer thing. Like tell me a little bit about what that career path is. So you can, so right now I am engineer two and at this firm I'm at now, they don't have engineer three.

is if you get your PE, your professional engineering license, and then you go to senior engineer. So like that's their level. It's one, two, senior, which is kind of scary. I'm like me. I'm too responsible. How long have I been in this field? Like that's legit sometimes how I feel. But so that's their level. then, know, senior one, two, three. I don't know what comes after that, to be honest. I haven't thought about it that far. But.

I will say probably the senior engineer stuff is when you start taking on the lead task roles and possibly delegating. It just depends on who's on the project and how many other people that we have. You'll usually see the more senior people take those roles. And then you'll probably be in charge of maybe the more, not necessarily complex designs, but

upon things that might take a little bit more time to set up or just to get through since you have, you might have most of the experience. But I will say the new engineers that have come in, it was like, here's a design, we'll help you, but this one's yours. Yeah. Have fun with that. We'll see when you get back. Ask questions. So yeah, will say looking, going like, you know, looking

in the future, it'll probably be more not supervisor role necessarily, but probably definitely more of a delegating role. It just, I think it just depends on who's available for which project. And if your manager knows that you're capable or not, and if you just have the time, like we have a pretty big group. So, but we also have a lot of work. So if you know anybody who's in instructional engineering, wants to drop, me know.

Go get that degree y'all because it's a shortage, right? Like it's not enough people and that's why I was talking about the visa. I mean, it was a joke, but I know we have concerns about our incoming administration. you know, the fact of the matter is, it's like that's how people come here on work visas, right? Because it's a lack of, you know, people in that field. And so then it's easier to sponsor a visa because in many ways you have to

you know, share that you're not able to fill that position in the U.S. to be eligible for that. So, yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't think they have it. I think it's more like the some of the newer people is like, guess she was saying how like even like the lottery system isn't the same as how it used to be. I think it's little. Yeah. So I'm like, this is news. It's lot. Yeah. I was like.

I just want everybody to be okay. I want to see you. I want to see you at the end of this four years. Okay, I want you to be here and safely family. gosh.

So I think I'm so we have kind of like two more questions. I think I'm going to kind of just like combine them into one So I think, you know, something that you're most proud of in your career and then what your biggest lesson has been in your career thus far. leaving is probably my most I think I'm most proud of in my career, to be honest. I haven't graduated yet, so I can't say that. But making it through this awesome semester was I was well.

So I guess I'm proud of that. But no, seriously, like kind of betting on myself and leaving the last job and coming to this one is something I am very proud of myself for doing because I was like, honestly terrified to do it, you know, because I was like, is this correct? I send this to them? Like, bro, if you don't submit the application. I was like, OK, I'm bothering her. me. But seriously, I was like, I'm going come get you. I don't like I don't like not having a plan. So it was.

Legit, I was betting on myself. like, okay, we gotta, I literally had to prove to myself that I knew what I was talking about. And being confident in my work, essentially. Because even like in school, I'm like, sometimes I'm surprised on how some people make it as far as they do. And then I realized that, I'm not stupid. I know what I'm doing. Like.

So then like, you know how Michelle Obama was saying like, girl, go go in that room because half of them don't know what they're talking about. Absolutely. It's literally like you literally have to think like that because it's true. It's so true. And like we minimize our skills and abilities. it's like sometimes out of like an abundance of like humility, like, you know, it's what we're expected to be. It's like.

Yeah, we accomplished all these great things, but we're still expected to be humble, to be grateful, to be thankful. Yeah. And it's like we can be thankful and grateful for what we have and accomplish. Like, I know a large part of the exit from the last role was like, oh, but it's so stable. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's been a whole period of time. Yeah. Yeah. Is it stable for is it is it stable for, you know, future? You know, it's not a good place for a future thing.

Even this one guy, was like, because he came, they actually moved him out there. And I went and had lunch with him because I was like, I need to remember. And he was like, they may get this one project, but what comes after that? So it was him telling me, yeah, leave. It's okay. And it really looked like everything is telling me to leave. I was just scared. So that was a big moment for me to just be like, okay.

know what you're doing. And it shows here, because even my mentor, she was like, no, Destinee, you do good work. It's amazing her. Yeah. You really do have to trust yourself in being like, OK, I know what I'm doing. There's so many people don't, not at my job. People at my job don't know doing. It was,

It was merely like, you know, how did you pass that exam? I was kidding in my courses in my courses. I'm like some of y'all. OK, OK, OK. I mean, that makes a little bit more sense.

Yeah, so betting on myself was something I was very proud of of doing in actually seeing like The prop like the results of it is actually it's really nice to see like I have grown so much

in these past years, it's kind of insane to be honest. I'm just like, I'm very proud of myself. I'm proud of you. Yeah, there was a time where like, know, told me to sit down. So I'm sitting down for now. But so I'm only doing school and working full time. I'm not doing that other thing anymore. I almost lost it. What was the other question? What was I most proud of in

your biggest lesson.

I don't rush things. Take the time. The Asian lady I told you about in my office, she's so funny. She's like, because I tell her like, want to get an A in class or whatever. She's like, me say something. You already have a job. Pass the class. She's like, what would you get if you already have a job? You have nothing else to really worry about.

Even with me like studying for the PE she was like, oh no, don't don't worry about that right now. You have so much time. And that's what I was like, I was like, that's amazing. But yeah, she said you got that. You were listening. I have to go talk to you. I did an intervention. Like that's.

figure out another way. I'll wait. Okay, I'll wait. But after I finish my masters, I'll wait. I won't do it again. I won't do it again. promise. I I gotta get somebody else to do it. Please. I'm tired. I'm so tired. So tired. Okay, sorry. Don't rush things. Take your time.

take the time to actually like learn and absorb the concepts of things. It's structural engineering is a lot of work. Don't expect to learn it in one day. Just like, mean, I I said it earlier, but my, you my dad's, mean, whatever they're trying to teach you, soak it up because you'll probably need it one day. So yeah, I can share a bit of advice. Everybody does do that. And I told the new engineers that too. I was like, y'all are very lucky.

Well, not lucky, but was like, y'all are in a very, in a good position right now. Cause like you came in out of school and you were getting like real design experience, like soak it up. It's probably a lot to handle, but you'll be better off in the future. So, so yeah, that was the lesson I have learned. It was a rough lesson, but you know, we are here.

Well, I love, I just.

I love this. I love all of your story. I love all of you. know, just watching you, mean, literally, I mean, I know you're talking about more of this, like, you know, this closer near term struggle and fight to like, you know, find some time for rest, find some time to take your time to give yourself some freedom and all that you are doing is

You going to school full-time and also pursuing your master's degree, but I just know I think that I'm sorry I think by some of those times when your mom would call me. She's like you better call destiny cuz she I Don't think I guess I never told you that cuz you I need you to and you should check on destiny Sometimes she would yeah, I mean I was still coming anyway I was like but you know it is those moments where you're just like it really is like you need that village to yeah

the hard work and you fought so hard to be a black woman in STEM. Like, and I'm talking about watching, watching you struggle, struggle in college. OK, I mean, really. So I just it's just an inspiration to like, you know, and call you my best friend and just also think about like, you know.

This kindred spirit, right? Like who says they are still best friends with their best friend from kindergarten? Who gets to say that? I don't know. We were we were birthed together with intention. Literally, literally, literally. And then seeing you do everything that you're doing is very inspirational. Let me let me get up off the couch real quick. Let me let me keep going. Wait, but you're supposed to listen. You're supposed to listen.

I know it's coming. I know all of the freedom and success and beauty that has been your journey is just going to continue to multiply because you are so deserving. yeah, don't cry on the Internet, girl. I was kidding. No, we can cry on the Internet. You know what? It's very cathartic when people cry on the Internet. OK, so.

As a wrap up, Destinee, you know, if you, what would be a good way for somebody to connect with you if they were like, I want to be a black woman in structural engineering. Probably LinkedIn. He's my LinkedIn. It's like, I'll keep it professional. yeah. Sometimes I'm bad about checking in. I'm better now. So I'll probably see, I'll see a message like, you know, within the, what's the grace period?

of not being rude. don't know what that is, but I'll get in if I don't. I just know I probably didn't see it yet, but I will respond if I see it. Just add me if I'm yelling. Then I'll be like, love how you're so into you like social media. We're still like girl. I just. It is not funny. Even I got off Twitter. It was like.

I got off Twitter too. I mean, I have a Twitter account and that's mostly just to complain at people. OK, like there's nothing there's no faster way that I found to get customer service support than to blow people up on Twitter. That's the only reason I have my Twitter. Otherwise, I would just delete it. It's a good thing because they don't like you to have their business on Twitter. I'll just like listen to me about stuff now. So he's my customer service and he's like, can't say that. And I'm like,

Watch me watch me do it. And then yeah, and then I calm down and they didn't mess anything else up. I wouldn't be upset. I know exactly exactly. I blew up the AI. That's what I do. I blow up a chat box. Oh, well, the Chipotle AI was not friendly. Well, it was friendly, but the AI Chipotle said, I can't help you get off of my chat. They say I'm closing the chat. I tried to talk to talk to them again. And it said, I've already talked to you about this issue.

I said, I don't have to, I have to go. It's above me now. Jordache had to give me a real person. then she was like, we already gave you your credit. Is there a reason why you want to refund it? I was like, cause it's my money. Is there a reason why you want to refund it? She sent it back. sent it back. Expeditiously. Sent it back to my, the original form of payment. Okay. Okay. So sorry.

No, no, you're fine. but just thank you, Desi, for doing this. Thank you for all the people that you're going to inspire the future. Black women in STEM. OK, let's that two percent up. yeah. Look at that. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I can't. I'm so excited about publishing this. So if you are out there, I hope this podcast helped you. I hope this podcast helps you enter your black woman bliss era where you're able to build a career.

and a business and a lifestyle that you love, that's gonna help us all as a community come together and be the diversity and be the black wealth and be the black excellence and success that we wanna see. So if you enjoyed this, make sure you subscribe on wherever you listen to your podcast, make sure you share this with a friend, your sis, and also leave a review to tell us what you thought about this episode. And of course you can support it directly on Spotify. All right loves, until next time, me and Destinee are wishing you much success in your career, in your business, and building a life that you love. Okay, bye! Bye! Yay, we did it!